I too hope Conservative bloggers who have supported the war will take the lead on this, but I don't expect it (At least not from people like Malkin).

"People like Malkin"?

Never mind. She hasn't posted on the subject yet. I'm sure she will. We'll see soon enough.

These men need to be tried, and if found guilty, executed.

Agreed. I commented to that effect on The Commissar's blog. You'll have to go a long way to find a differing opinion on the right.

Ironically, some on the Right seem to be using this case as a way of downplaying the horrors of Abu Gharib.

Uh... What horrors of Abu Ghraib? That's a strange typo for "prisoner abuse". Or are you referring to what happened at that prison during Saddam's rule?

Haditha - if the story is true - is a different matter and far more serious. It is an atrocity, a war crime, and those responsible should hang.

Eh, obviously you are one of the Right Wing, Abu Gharib was just a fraternity prank set... right? Or was it you just could not stomach the bloody pictures, and I am not speaking of soiled panties... You know the ones of people who had the crap beat out of them, or had dogs loosed on them. Dude, AG is not that far out of our minds, for people to start spinning it as something less than it was, a fucking horror chamber that came short of Saddam's madness only by the fact that no one was killed (that we know of) Although I do seem to recall hearing of the "accidental death," of an Iraqi officer if I am not mistaken.
No I am not comparing the two incidents, but I wont sit here while Abu Gharib is marginalized either. Both were examples of rogue troops committing outrages, and and Neither should be marginalized or made less significant, simply because a far more horrendous crime is commited.

I agree that if found guilty these soldiers should be severely punished despite the stresses they may have been under at the time. Just because it is war does not mean one is allowed to neglect their own humanity.

I think another issue that may not get as much attention is that the military twice previous attempted to explain this incident. First the victims' deaths were explain by a roadside bomb that didn't exist. When inquiry into the incident found that there was no bomb the military attempted to explain that they were caught in crossfire with insurgents. It seems only now after repeated investigation that the truth seems to be coming to light.

The fact that these explanations were so wrong and so quickly disseminated to discourage inquiry is a bit shocking in of itself.

Robber Barron said: "I agree that if found guilty these soldiers should be severely punished despite the stresses they may have been under at the time. Just because it is war does not mean one is allowed to neglect their own humanity."

I have asked this question elsewhere, without answer. It is somewhat rehtorical, but food for thought. War is ugly by definition, so without comparisons of scale or time frame for an excuse, here is my question:

How do you prosecute Marine enlisted men whose squad may have killed civilians in a town, when at the same time you say "Well Done" to an Officer whose Squadron has obliterated a whole town and nearly everyone in it? Think the WWII destruction of Dresden, Germany and the incendiary bombing of Tokyo, Japan, both acts aimed specifically at civilians?

Were those war crimes? Or was that a loss of humanity for a redemptive cause? Are civilians not a critcal resource in warfare? I am interested how this moral dilema is explained. I am not trying to put anyone on the spot. I truly believe it needs to be thought about and talked about, without preconcieved conclusions.

I'm sure that, just as in the Abu Ghirab incidence, the only Marines who will be hung out to dry will be at the squad/company level. Having served 12 years in the Navy, I know all too well that investigations are designed to stop at the lowest rank involved. Heaven forbid that the policy that led to the crime should ever be questioned. But, in a couple of months we will get to hear Bush confess that "mistakes were made". So comforting isn't it?

I pretty much agree with you David, yet the sad thing is the football is in the air. This is just a tragidy on all sides...

PS- according to Allah at Hot Air you are left-leaning... all this time I thought you were center. Live and learn.

It is a sad commentary on the actions of a few if true. It makes no more sense to smear America or it's military and ask them to cease and desist all action in Iraq anymore than all policemen should quit responding to calls because of a few bad cops. Any commentary besides that relating to realism is useless. Of course with a page titled
"In Search of Utopia" I understand. War should be an action which is never undertaken. It would be nice if all sides agreed. They won't, anymore than muggers will quit kicking peoples faces in. By the way I have served in a war and have been mugged and had my face kicked in, so I know a little from where I speak.

Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and a few other NGOs, have designated June Torture Awareness Month. I've created a blogroll you can join if you're interested. You can find it here. The idea is that everyone is linked to from the blogroll, and in exchange, you discuss torture (as you already do), and link to the Torture Awareness site to help support the NGOs.

There's a lot of bloggers concerned about human rights abuse in the War on Terror. If we coordinate, we can show our support and help Amnesty and HRW make Torture Awareness Month a success.

Eh, Joe, learn how to read. I never said I was against all wars, and have often said we should not retire from Iraq until the job is done and those people have a stable, secure society. Stop drinking the cool aide, or take off the freaking Rightie glasses for a moment, you will feel better. The headaches will just go away!
Elendil, I would love to join the group. Will take care of it later. I just got in from a night out with the boys and I am beat.

Eh, obviously you are one of the Right Wing, Abu Gharib was just a fraternity prank set... right?

No. It was a serious case of prisoner abuse. It was prosecuted as such.

Or was it you just could not stomach the bloody pictures, and I am not speaking of soiled panties... You know the ones of people who had the crap beat out of them or had dogs loosed on them.

Had dogs loosed on them? Really? You know what the term loosed means, right?

It's a case of prisoner abuse, but you should stick to the facts.

(As for the pictures: I served on the jury in an assault case; the photos presented as evidence were worse, in terms of physical violence, than anything from Abu Ghraib.)

It was not a "horror". What happened at Abu Ghraib under Saddam Hussein was a horror: Decades of murder, torture, and state-sponsored rape.

I am not trying to make light of what happened there, much less justify it, but neither will I allow you to blow it up into something it wasn't. The media spent an entire year doing that.

Now, as to "people like Malkin", the person most like Malkin says:

If what is being reported is true, the Marines responsible for the alleged atrocities deserve the harshest penalties possible.

What did you expect her to say? And why?

Where I come from the term means let loose. And as far as you allowing me to do something, eh... I dont think that is your call. You say you are not justifying what happened at AG, NO you are minimizing it, and that is just as bad. As for Malkin, she spent 98% of her piece spinning the innocent until proven guilty angle, as I expected she would. Now I happen to believe in the same principle. I have said clearly in my posts on this subject, "IF" the charges are proven to be true. But whether they are 100% true or not, we have a bunch of children dead, and regardless of the circumstances of their deaths, this is a tragedy, one one that should give all of us pause. On the Abu Gharib story, people like you disgust me. NO Human being could look at those pictures and NOT call what happened there a horror. Torture is torture, and often the kind of mental torture that went on there, is far worse than physical torture, not to mention that there were more than enough instances of that (the physical) as well. So if it helps you sleep at night, keep living in Limbaugh land. Keep denying it.

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