David, if you're going to keep harping on Paul's "cotton" piece (which was truly satirical, and nearly everyone else but you recognized), I'm gonna keep harping on your "Bush is a racist" piece. At least Paul's was built on reality.

And Paul's thesis is pretty much accurate. Those who depend most on government trusted the local and state government -- and got royally screwed. Those who depend least on government heeded the warnings and beat cheeks the hell out before it all turned to hell.

But that doesn't fit into your "racist kool-aid" image of Paul, does it? Pity when facts muck up your prejudices...

J.

Let me make it a bit clearer for you, David:

The more people depend on government for their basic needs, the more they will be utterly fucked when that government fails them. And it will.

In New Orleans, the local and state governments depended on shoddy, inadequate, unrealistic plans to evacuate in case of emergency -- and then didn't even follow those. Who paid the price for that collapse? Those who have spent generations being indoctrinated that "the government" owes them everything, and that they don't need to do anything for themselves -- "the government" will take care of it all. And if "the government" won't, then they can get a "community activist" or something similar to get them "what they have coming."

So, when the mayor and governor said -- way too late -- "evacuate if you can; come to the Superdome or the Convention Center if you can't," they did so. And found that there was no food, no water, no sanitary provision, no nothing there for them.

From my reading, Paul is mostly OUTRAGED that these people have been screwed so badly for years, and now are paying the price. Why aren't you equally outraged at the way they've been treated for so long?

Finally, the only mention of race is Paul's mention of his "evil white republican ass." He says it's more of a class and economic thing, and I think he's right about that.

J.

David, while I understand your anger (perhaps not fully, because I am from a different heritage), I feel it is necessary to point out that on occasion, you may be hurting the cause you want to advance.

This is one of those occasions.

I urge you to consider what you have written here, and whom it might conceivably convince to change their minds or at least reconsider their attitudes.

I refer you to my post from today: ...on how after four years, there are still only questions

I ask you to please consider my questions.

Thank you.

Jack:
I appreciate you friendship and advice, I will pass on taking it... This time. I have long since stopped caring about being politically delicate when it comes to some people. The failures of Katrina, so well documented all over the web in the last two weeks, are the failures of America in putting image and spin before common sense. Some people elected a Frat Boy President who in turn put his buddies and business interest before the good of the country I love, as a result thousands have died. Jay and Paul and all the other Kool Aide drinkers can keep spinning it until their heads hurt, but this poll shows that the majority of Americans... It seems a majority that is growing weekly, has woken up. I celebrate that fact, even if belatedly, ***and even at the cost of thousands of lives lost***. (Yes I did express myself poorly.) Anyone who knows me, knows that I would not wish the death of ONE person to make a political point. So my appologies to anyone who lost anyone in New Orleans or elsewhere in the Gulf. My point was that it was a shame that thousands had to die to demonstrate the falacy of "The Strong, Principled Leader," meme that passed as Bush's platform in 2004. The failure of Leadership following Karina demonstrated far better than any political statement, the sheer falacy of that perception. I have left the original comment so as not to provide fodder that I am a revisionist. I know what I meant, but I acknowledge stating it, albiet in Anger, VERY poorly!

I posted a link to a post Cobb did today on the scapegoating of Ray Nagin, Cobb happens to be a Conservative and Bush Supporter, and he aint buying it, for good reasons that he documents. I would suggesst that Jay read the post. The indesputable fact is that FEMA is manned by a bunch of rank amateurs, and even if I was buying that they are not responsible for the failures in the Gulf, which I am not, this is an outrage that Jay and his ilke continue to ignore or at worst pooh pooh. You betcha I am angry. I am beyond angry.... Those little black children who are suffering right now, thos 30 plus old people who died in the retirement home, all the victims... cry out for justice, and I damned well dont care who's feelings I hurt in seeking it for them.
As for Paul, I repeat my challenge Jay, which you have ignored at least three times, show me "one" gd post, just ONE, where Paul has shown any compassion for Black folk or poor when he wasnt being as you put "satirical," and I put, "racist." And as for the ass kissing Negroes who served as appologist for Paul, they... like him, can kiss my ass. They no more represent Blacks than I do Irish, despite being 1/3 Irish.

"It wasn't race or even so much economic status that made the difference in how people got thru the storm... it was attitude and ability."

A classless quote from a white member of the middle class, who, as you point out, was also well connected enough to have a blog and financial supporters in cyberspace. Of course, people like Paul will always think it is their "ability and attitude" that gets them through when they have all the other advantages already. If they thought otherwise, they couldn't keep their worldview.

"From my reading, Paul is mostly OUTRAGED that these people have been screwed so badly for years, and now are paying the price. Why aren't you equally outraged at the way they've been treated for so long?"

I must disagree, Jay Tea. I think Paul's quote above makes it clear that he has nothing but contempt for these people, even if he blames the government for their sorry state. Not because they're black, not because they're poor, but because they lack what he perceives as his superior qualities. The system didn't screw these people. It made it possible for them to screw themselves, in his eyes. Why, if everyone could just be like Paul, none of this would have happened and everyone would be just fine.

David, your anger makes it nearly impossible to understand your point...

Dont worry Jake, just read your blog, you wouldnt understand anyway.

Sounds to me like this wacko Anderson has about as much sense as lying Nagin and crying Blanco. Whose damn cars is that setting around in the projects? Why didn't they use these to get out? Hmmm reckon maybe they thought there was going to be too many "goodies" left behind that would go to "waste". Don't give me the BS that they were suffering from hunger--on the 1st day! Ever tried a TV on french toast? La. & NO are two of the most corrupt places in the USA. Why would anyone believe a thing that comes from them.Well you say the "people" elected them. Sure they did because they got thier goverment check each month. Wonder how many generations these checks go back. There should have been every effort possible made to evacuate the elderly, the kids, those in hospitals first. There were buses galore to do this. Plenty of time to. This was Bush's job? BS It was "Baldy's" job. This blame Bush game has gone on long enough. You damn excuse makers on the left are undermining the safety of your "own" country. It is time for you to put up or shut up. Of coarse you cannot "put up" because you got your ass handed to you the last 2 elections (another one to come)You come across as nothing more then poor ass LOSERS.
There, I had my say. Have a good day.

Wow.

So you read all of my blog or only a couple of posts? Did you notice that there are multiple authors blogging?

So do you insult all of your new visitors, or just the ones that don't emphatically agree with you?

You know what, that was out of line. You are right, I am angry. And I appologize for going off on you. I am about as angry as I have ever been and I am not going to feel better any time soon I am afraid. I keep looking at those people, the victims, and then I read the crap Paul writes and it pisses me off more. I am going to retire for the night, I am not accomplishing anything, again I am sorry.

I am an idiot, I recognize that I am powerless to deal with my idiocy. For some reason I find myself compelled to go to other people's blogs and make a total ass out of myself. Pitty me, dont hate me.

Howard, piss off Troll.

HEY DAVID,

YOU FORGOT TO POST THE THANK YOU PAUL HAD PUT OUT FOR THE MONEY BEING COLLECTED AND ASKED FOR IT TO GO TO SOMEONE WHO NEEDED IT MORE THAN HIMSELF....

BUT I GUESS THAT WOULD NOT GO WITH THE SHADOW YOU ARE LOOKING TO CAST ON WIZBANG...

LEFTY....

Oh please, Paul didn't twist your words one bit. He quoted them verbatim. Now I don't believe you actually mean what they quite clearly say. So why don't you just say you misspoke or expressed yourself poorly? Or is the mature course of action really that foreign to you?

Hmmm must have hit a nerve did I davy? LMAO

O I forgot that only a "educated" nerd could spout off those profound statement that you make. LOL

Drivel. . . . Pure drivel

Okay MCQ I will. Yes, I expressed my feelings poorly. It has been corrected. And I am NOT above admitting error.

As for Paul giving the money to those more needy, good for him. I did not see it or I would have never made the point, interesting that Jay Tea did not raise it, but whatever... The post he made that I originaly linked to is still tacky as hell. And for all you trolls coming over to defend, get over it. I could care less about your comments. Make yourself look like a self serving, Kool Aide drinking rear end kissing asswipe and I will leave it. Cross the line and I will delete it or rephrase it to show your real colors.

Why should we care if you delete them? Are you some kind of vip that we could not get along without. Quit patting your self on the back.
("just a trolling along")That is what I do, since I dont have a life. I am so happy that you are actually paying attention to me though.

By the way if us "trolls" didn't come over , who would be here? Of course, being the loser that I am, I have nothing more to do, and I am hoping that if I kiss Paul's ass enough, he may actually notice me.

You are funny Howie, I am beginning to like you. And I am glad you came over. Shows you really care, about something anyway. You know what, it's okay to be passionate about what you believe in dude. Believe it or not, I respect it. I have about the same opinion of you and your politics, that you have of me and mine, but we can both take some solace in the fact that History will judge one of us well, while the other... Well you know the REST of the Story, and the polls would seem to indicate that your opinion of the President is a minority one at the moment, and will only continue to slide. The fall that you on the Conservative and Republican side have taken since November has got to hurt. If I were on your side, I would have to be feeling some embarrassment at the moment at how spectacularly your candidate has failed, but I imagine it is easier to delude one's self into thinking it is all some kind of conspiracy.
Anyway, what more is to be said. I have work to do, work that pays. So Troll on Brother, have fun. And just so you know, we may not be Wizbang in readership numbers, but believe me, ISOU has it's niche and I am happy with it.

Polls are like assholes (Believe me, I know, since I am one of the biggest assholes around)--everyone has one although "some" in differant places.

How are you 1/3 Irish?

This might really mess things up here, but Gov. Blanco just absolved Bush of blame.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/12/D8CIOSM00.html

John, I would not expect anything less from the Govenor who is it appears to me, equally to blame, along with the Mayor, The President Head of FEMA and everyone else involved, of failing to show leadership in a time when those people needed leadership.

David, I've been away from comments here for awhile because, quite frankly, I have seen you too driven by emotion over the past months. You and I had some really intellectually honest debates a few months back, and I'm commenting today in hopes of reviving some of the level-headed thought processes that we shared through that conversation.

The undeniable fact is that in New Orleans (Mississippi's exclusion from the spotlight being an entirely different matter), many blacks were left in the city to fend for themselves. The question at hand centers upon "why?"

Some point to perceptions and stereotypes, saying that "White America" doesn't care about "Black America." Others call the situation coincidental, saying that the demographic of those people was simply a factor of what area was affected. I don't think either are accurate.

I personally feel that the percentage gap between those "unable" to leave and those "unwilling" to leave is about 35/65, leaning heavily towards "unwilling." I base this upon the fact that in Gulfport, Mississippi, the mayor estimated that, despite a "mandatory" evacuation (which everyone knows isn't really mandatory), only about 20% of his city's population actually evacuated. This is a city made up of a pretty diverse mix of people, and doesn't include a dense population of black people as does New Orleans. In that light, a 35/65 split is probably somewhat off, giving more weight to those who wanted to leave and couldn't, but it serves the purpose of this debate.

Why would these people choose to stay? Either the danger of their situation wasn't adequately communicated, or, like many people in any similar situation, they didn't take the threat seriously enough. The freedom of choice, even to do something stupid, still exists in some cases (and rightly so).

What of those who simply couldn't get out? For those people, whether sick, elderly, or otherwise incapacitated, there should have been a widely publicized hotline established such that ambulances, handicapped-accessible buses, and the like, could have been dispatched to carry people from their homes to a place of refuge. I don't know what New Orleans media was running, but I know I didn't see such a plan on the national media coverage. I feel that there was a similar plan implemented, however. Those without transportation, I know, were offered a ride from several bus stops, but they were responsible for getting themselves to the stops--the buses didn't go house-to-house. I don't necessarily think that the City of New Orleans and the State of Louisiana did enough, but they did do some things to try and prepare.

People were also told to bring about 3 days worth of food, water, and other necessities to the shelters, and many didn't. This created a massive problem, as it was logistically impossible to get supplies into these areas in advance of the storm, all arteries of transport being utilized to get people out of the city.

On a local level, there's some blame that belongs to Mayor Nagin, because he didn't by any means utilize all the city's available resources, but a lot of people, because of factors that have precious little to do with race or economic state (if anything at all), got themselves into a really bad fix, and truly have nobody to blame but themselves. That's the cold, hard truth.

The federal response was upon the exact timeline that should be expected, and has been observed and recorded in the past. FEMA is not a rescue organization, they're not a police force. Their primary function is to issue checks. Further, FEMA works through a chain-of-command structure that delegates field operations to their state-level organizations. If there's any major blame to place upon FEMA it's their failure to intervene when LEMA's efforts were misdirected or just plain wrong.

In the same way, Bush was unwilling to "pull rank" on Blanco by federalizing the Louisiana National Guard. Here in Mississippi, Governor Barbour had already overseen the call-up of National Guard units, and they rolled out of Camp Shelby headed for the coast as soon as the winds died down Monday evening, armed with chainsaws and heavy equipment necessary to clear the roads.

If you want a real clear picture of what went wrong at which level, compare the Mississippi situation with the New Orleans situation. If anything, evacuation efforts were better in New Orleans than in Mississippi. FEMA responded in a very similar fashion to both areas, but the outcome was significantly different. If everything went well down to point "A," wouldn't that be the place to start analyzing?

I'm not saying that mistakes were not made at the federal level, mind you, but most of the mistakes I've seen expounded upon have to do with news conference gaffes and PR blunders--not substantive errors. If there were profound problems in the system that were exposed here, there will be corrections made. I truly think that the most glaring error was within placing too much responsibility on the state and local authorities, but such is the nature of our republic.

All that I've said, David, is pertinent directly to Katrina and New Orleans. The greater problem, however, has nothing to do with the hurricane. Why, after a half-century of work towards establishing racial equality and against poverty, was there such a concentration of poor black people in one of the more affluent cities in the United States? Why were these people concentrated in projects that happened to be placed in the lowest part of a city that was, from all accounts, a disaster waiting to happen?

The answer to those questions lead directly to the point and purpose of the government programs established in the name of helping black Americans. Poverty isn't relieved with a handout. Racism isn't eradicated by establishing victimhood. There must be proactive solutions that include participation by those people found within those situations. When an entire race of people is told that they're unable to do for themselves, that they're incapable of being educated at the same level as the majority, that they're incapable of securing gainful employment because of their skin color, and that they are "owed" concessions and benefits because of their race, the result is that race becoming hamstrung by their own dependence upon the government. Perhaps I've been duped by the selective media coverage of the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans, but the number of those who were actively trying to lend a helping hand seemed tiny compared to those who sat down and waited for someone else to do something.

What I'm trying to get across is that the diabetic should have gotten his insulin before he left home. The mother of the newborn should have gotten formula for her baby. Every citizen should have at the very least brought a gallon jug of water with them. As it happened, very few people did anything to prepare for themselves, but chose to go somewhere and wait for someone else to give them what they needed.

Were they responsible for their own well-being? To a very high degree, yes. Was it really their fault? I would give a twofold answer to that: in one sense, the blame goes to them for not listening to the specific directions about how to prepare; in a much broader and damning sense, however, the environment created by the unprincipled and ill-conceived government programs is at fault, for producing a widespread mentality that the government can, should, and always will, in every situation, provide every man, woman, and child with the basic needs of life.

There was a horribly tragic failure at the federal level, but it happened decades ago.

BTW--I apologize for the long comment, but you know it's not my style to throw one-lined snipes. Looking forward to your response.

To Katie: Nope 4/3 AMERICAN, and I am 100% moron, that is why I come over here to Rant.

My Grandfather on my Mother's side was Irish Katie. Bo, welcome back, and yes you are right about many of the things you have said, but I have never concentrated on the specifics. What I have said, what I have criticized, is a failure in Leadership, and in my opinion ALL levels of Government involved are guilty. My biggest issue with the Administration was the lack of Leadership on the part of Bush, the cronyism involved in the FEMA appointments, and the gross insensitivity towards people who were suffering, regardless of long term cause. I am glad to see you back. And yes I am emotional about this. I lost some close personal friends (For Sure), and maybe some distant relatives (Not sure on that one yet), and I am very angry. Mostly I am angry because 40 years after the civil rights struggle, people are still living in the conditions you described. And dont worry about the length of your comment, you are always welcome to guest blog should you choose.

David

I have been quite vocal in that I will not take part in the partisan blame game that has been going on over here for days. I find it morally reprehensible to say the very least. But, I did want to ask you a question, David. Why do you have a comment policy and then allow every troll Jay Tea and his crew can throw at you to comment? Those idjits only lessen the level of discourse and make the noise ratio increase 100x the normal level. They are just diminishing your blog and what you have to say. No one can hear you from the crap that dribbles from their chins.

Honest answer? I could care less. The trolls only make themselves look like the Partisan idiots that they are, the others, as long as they are not insulting, I really dont care. As for not agreeing with pointing fingers? Well, I respect your opinion, but as someone who lost friends and possibly family in New Orleans, I will continue to hold people responsible until someone who can do something about it does, and it looks like Hillary whom I know you respect is demanding the same thing.

Thanks for the invitation, David. I may take you up on it soon. There's a couple things I'm rolling around (some of which I touched on earlier today) that I'd like to run at you.

As to your three points (ignore my response if I misread these:
1. Bush's lack of leadership.
2. Bush's appointment of friends and supporters to FEMA and other offices.
3. FEMA's indifference in the face of suffering in New Orleans.

1. His "guitar" photo was a PR fart. I've said for years that if someone's somehow sheltering Bush from the criticisms that spring from such scenes as that, when he gets out of office he's going to beat every one of his advisors senseless. At the same time, I think he believes that a calm, calculating approach to a crisis serves to better calm the American people, and in some cases it works, though his critics jump on such actions with both feet. I dare say, though, that if he had immediately sprang into action, flying AF1 into New Orleans and setting up a Presidential Command Post in the midst of the fray, he would have been accused of grandstanding, just as he was with the surprise Thanksgiving trip. He can't please everyone, no matter how he may try, and some people he couldn't have pleased, no matter what he had done. But I have seen or heard presented no feasible, legal plan of action that he should have taken. Either he did too little or he was strongarming and making a power play over a Democratic governor (and mayor).

2. This is a delicate matter. Nobody wants to think that Presidents call up their "buddies" to put them in high positions, but that's essentially what they do. If it's not their personal friends, it's the personal friends of their personal friends. Very seldom, if ever, has there been a President that didn't practice this brand of pseudo-nepotism. What Bush has accomplished, however, is that he's generally appointed people who have proven themselves quite capable in their capacities. He's gotten a couple hacks, to be sure, but can you name a recent President that hasn't? Every administration has its share of embarassment, and most of the scandals center around their at-will appointments (as opposed to those who require Senate approval).

3. I've told some friends that the situation FEMA found itself in goes something like this: You're the "network manager" of a small but busy company, overseeing a network of about 20 workstations. Suddenly, your company buys out a huge corporation and you've been retained as network manager. Next morning, you get called into the CEO's office, and he explains that now you've got 2500 computers in three states. He wants all of them up and running by noon, without any downtime. Oh, and they're all PCs. Running Windows. 3.11. FEMA was thrust into a situation that they never anticipated. I've written elsewhere that one of the problems was too many survivors. Grim as that may sound, the "worst-case scenario" was a storm surge flood of 20-25 feet as Pontchartrain was pushed into the city, resulting in thousands upon thousands drowned within minutes. It didn't happen. Instead, the big lake remained largely in place, but the surge damaged the levees, causing a slow flood that ran people out of their homes and into the streets and their attics by the thousands. Certainly 30,000 or more dead in the immediate flood would have been more tragic, but the brutal fact is that it would have been more easily managed than was the rescue of that number. As it happened, the flooding brought about a logistical nightmare that nobody --not FEMA, not NOAA, nobody-- had forseen or predicted and for which truly nobody was prepared. They weren't indifferent or uncaring. They were stunned. They had the plans, they had the bodybags in storage at Baton Rouge (had been there for years, btw). The flood just didn't play by their rules. Time will tell what was said behind the scenes, but I think your worry that "nobody cared" will be laid to rest eventually, if cooler heads prevail in the investigation that will surely come.

Calm down, slow down, and don't let people provoke you so easily. You've got too sound a mind to be inadvertently putting forth the image of just another snark in the blogosphere.

Well now that the Conversation has turned to intelligent discussion, I guess that's My queue to take my ignorance elsewhere. I always felt kind of stupid and out of my league here anyway

David, I'm declining your challenge on Paul's behalf because you're asking me to prove a negative. You've cited two examples where you thought Paul demonstrated racist behavior; in both cases, I've countered them. (I haven't "defended" or "excused" him, because I believe he needs neither; I have merely responded to your accusations.)

Racism is a hell of a heavy charge. It demands equally heavy evidence. And the burden of proof must always fall on the accuser.

You've repeatedly called George W. Bush a racist, for example. I've repeatedly called you on it, and I'd like you to cite specific evidence of his racism -- and those circumstances better be clearly (slight pun intended) black and white, where the action cited is clearly discriminatory or the motivation is the simplest (or among the simplest) explanation. Your little "satire" constructed racism completely out of whole cloth, for example, with not a shred of basis in reality. To me, that's not satire, that's smearing.

(long, thoughtful piece deferred)

I'm going back to bed. I'm too sick and too tired to deal with this right now. The only thing that sucks worse than a spring cold is a spring cold that comes at the end of summer.

J.

I think accountability is essential after what has happened in Lousianna and Mississippi. My problem with the blogosphere right now is that y'all are being terribly partisan about it. It is all the other sides fault. When, in my opinion, everyone should be able to see that no side is innocent in this tragedy. No one was prepared like they should have been. Everyone failed. No one is exempt. It shouldn't be a partisan issue. It shouldn't be about politics at all. This tragedy is more than that and making it that diminishes the human devastation that is Hurricane Katrina. Everyone should be able to join together and put down their politics long enough to do something about this without worrying which side is going to look best at the end of day. And, the failure to do that just makes everyone look extremely petty.

Rogue, at the risk of sounding like the devil's advocate, you say that no side is innocent in this situation. How do we know that either side is guilty? Let's say that 2000 people are dead. Estimates based upon a Cat-3 (for which the levees were designed) estimated 50,000-100,000 dead in New Orleans alone. Those who died in the Superdome, on the bridge, and in the convention center got a lot of attention, but just by Louisiana's "raw death rate" statistics, 2 or 3 would have died within those 3 days had they been safe in their home and the storm had never come.

What's needed is an honest evaluation of the situtation, a revision of the plans that didn't work, or didn't work as well as they should, and an analysis of previously-unforseen problems that arose. What is not needed is a lynch mob assigning culpability, and in the process further polarizing an already hurting people.

Bush today said he accepts responsibility for any Federal failures. If Nagin and Blanco follow suit at their respective levels of government (and make no mistake, none of the three are saying, "I screwed up," but that "the buck stops with me, I know it, and I'll fix it as best I can."), perhaps much of the venom will wash into Pontchartrain with the rest of the vile stuff this storm brought to our great land and one of its greatest cities.

Bo, in my opinion ... everyone is guilty. EVERYONE. That includes me and you and the government, the residents, the state officials, the city officials, the police, FEMA, everyone who thought that we were prepared for an emergency of any level ... whether that emergency was a natural disaster or a terrorist attack. Everyone who has gotten way too used to hurricanes, tornadoes, tropical storms and don't take them as seriously as they should are also at fault. And, that includes me. I live in an area where I have ignored many a siren because we are used to tornadoes. I have played on my computer, being bumped off every two seconds, while a tornado hovered above my house. Why? Because tornadoes don't come straight down so I was safe. If I had been a few houses down I might have been scared.

No one, and I mean no one, was prepared for Hurricane Katrina. That is a fact. What happened during and after proves that. It was a modern day Pearl Harbor with the enemy much more powerful than the Japanese. The main difference was that when Pearl Harbor happened, America joined together. When Hurricane Katrina happened, we split down partisan lines.

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