Amen-Brother

"Do you think that WITHOUT the criticism from the Left Spere, that Bush would be there today?"

Honestly? Yes.

Presidents and governors visit disaster scenes as soon as it's safe and feasible to move in. Not before its feasible. They all do. They do no-one any favors by putting their safety at risk for the sake of a photo-op.

As far as incompetent disaster relief. Do you think the federal government is omniscient and omnipotent? There are millions of variables to consider. It takes time to assess levels of disaster and determine appropriate action. You're operating safely on hindsight. A massive immediate deployment of helicopters to air lift people out would be silly if there were still the possiblity of some to live snuggly in the Superdome for a week or to walk out of the city on foot. It takes time to assess stuff. And believe it or not, random real-life disaster scenerios have the ability to differ from hypothetical disaster response scenerios dreamed up by well-paid federal disaster imaginers.

You just come across as a pampered holier-than-thou Monday Morning Quarterback. One with a political ax to grind. You have no credibility claiming a right to dissent. You always dissent. To quote you, that never fails to amaze and annoy me. Obviously you'd have criticized Bush for political preening and posturing had he spent taxpayer money to jet himself to Louisiana to stand in a wet tent, shake hands, take pictures, and look concerned.

You're obviously the product of a great nation with high expectations. No third-worlder would expect such super-human response efforts from their government. And remember that the government is human. Not the godlike mother you remember from your childhood. It seems that you take your good fortune for granted.

It's tough times, but we'll prevail.

“ I despised hypocrites a long time ago. “

BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRACY!!!!

“And just to make it clear, I never accused Bush of Racism”

Ooops sweetheart. Then maybe you should have put this at the bottom of your post:

_Posted by David A at September 2, 2005 11:02 AM
Filed Under Hurricane Katrina, Hypocrisy, Politics, Racism | 854 Words_

“Oh, and just so you know, I do understand disasters, having lived through a few of them myself.”

Again, he’s keep it real. Unlike you naziracists, who are guilty of THE HYPOCRACY!!!!

“What I dont understand is people who just cant acknowledge that they are wrong. That never fails to amaze and annoy me.”

What never fails to amaze and annoy me is how dopes like this don’t proof their copy. Or maybe they are too stupid and CAN’T.

REALITY IS GOOD.

Eh... X, you want to explain to me what that idiotic screed was all about. Perhaps I am too "stoopid," to figure it out. Eh ss...

"Obviously you'd have criticized Bush for political preening and posturing had he spent taxpayer money to jet himself to Louisiana to stand in a wet tent, shake hands, take pictures, and look concerned."

Why not, I seem to remember him doing it on what... September 13th, and Let's not forget the Faux Turkeys in Iraq, or the "Mission Accomplished. "

If you guys are going to criticize me, make some sense.

Oh, and I don't doubt we will prevail. Never have. But it will be because of the Spirit of the American People, including those who are critical of the Administrations reaction, but who are still stepping up to help.

""Obviously you'd have criticized Bush for political preening and posturing had he spent taxpayer money to jet himself to Louisiana to stand in a wet tent, shake hands, take pictures, and look concerned."

Why not, I seem to remember him doing it on what... September 13th, and Let's not forget the Faux Turkeys in Iraq, or the "Mission Accomplished. "

If you guys are going to criticize me, make some sense."

Did you just grant my point and then accuse me of not making sense? Um...

No, not at all, because my post was not about Bush making appearances, it was about food, water and rescue teams making an appearance, BEFORE five days into the greatest dissaster to ever strike our shores. But then I suspect you knew that.

Please cite where Bush said "Mission Accomplished."

Remember, REALITY IS GOOD.

PS: Filing a post under racism then saying it's not about racism. And I don't make sense?

Plus you can't spell very well.

Eh, the racism tag refers to YOUR HERO Jeff G saying that someone said Bush does not care about Brown People. Were you so eager to hit back that you did not read that, or can you read X, and just out of curiosity, why is it you people never have the balls to actually give a real name and email address? Secondly, yeah he said it... He authorized the big banner hanging over his head, or did you forget that? He also said "Major Combat Operations are over," Tell that to the soldiers who died yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
You should take your head out of your ass, at least long enough to argue. The smell of your own shit is affecting your higher brain functions.

Why are you blaming me for not understanding your post? You classified it as racism, yet said it wasn't about racism?

Who is Jeff G and why is he supposably my hero?

When did he say it? You know, put air through his lungs to vocalize? Can you make this citation or not? Do you really believe that policy is set and communicated through banners? Do you know anything about military terminology?

Why is it "ballsy" to put my real name up? Are you afraid to dicuss my argument and want to talk about me as a person (i.e. ad hominem)?

Why do you resort to profanity and poopy-talk? Are you afraid you might be wrong?

Sort of like you talking about me. No I dont, really I don't find you interesting enough to talk about you. In fact, since you dont seem to understand, and I dont speak your language. I guess there is no point in continuing, is there. Rant on... Have fun. You might be dissapointed though, there won't be much of an echo chamber here.

I'll take that as your admission that you don't know what you are talking about. Glad we could clear this up. Cheers and have a happy weekend.

My point is that your complaints carry no weight, because you'd complain about Bush regardless of the response, a point which you grant. And in return, I'll grant your point that in a utopia, aid would have arrived sooner.

Too bad we're human, which means we're doomed to try our best and then lament that we're only human. (And as a debate tip, I'd suggest you not leap to crude excretory accusations. It may feel good, but I thought your goal was utopia. Would debate in your utopian world consist of shit hurling?)

You guys declare victory faster than Bush, and that is no small feat. Congrats. Now forgive me if I ignore you from now on, would not care to make any more scatological references.

Oh, and X. You're not to smart. If you are going to pretend that you did not come here from Protien Wisdom, buy some software to mask your IP as well as your identity. I know both, but could actually care less. Your insincerity speaks volumes about your real intent. What is amazing is how smart some people THINK they are, when they dont have a clue.

I don't know Jeff personally, as you implied. Your assertion was incorrect. Do you wish to withdraw this assection that I know Jeff and that he is my hero?

Sigh. Not sure where I declared victory. Just trying to have a reasoned debate on the merits, beyond name-calling. I don't speak for X or others. There's no "you people" here. I've been trying to engage you here. Don't assume this is hate mail, just because I disagree with you.

I just encourage you to not get so wrapped up in your on-line persona that you fail to recognize sincere people when you come across them. Brusquely ignoring anyone who disagrees with you is no step toward utopia--that is, if your utopia involves debate and amicable compromise, rather than mind-control lobotomization (which, um, I would object to, were I able.)

S, my appologies. I agree with you on debate. Perhaps we got off on the wrong foot when I read this:

"Not the godlike mother you remember from your childhood. It seems that you take your good fortune for granted."

I dont like anyone bringing my dead mother into political debate. Nevertheless, we can debate the issue, I am sure that in the end we will dissagree.

As for X... I dont know Jeff either, dont want to. But it was you who claimed to not even know who he is,

"Who is Jeff G and why is he supposably my hero?"

Interesting since you came to this post DIRECTLY from his Blog.

I don't know Jeff, I just read his posts time to time and today followed a hyperlink. I didn't even know his real name was Jeff. Maybe you ASSUME too much...which makes you look silly.

No, not at all. What looks silly is you lying and trying to talk your way out of it. Sort of blows your credibility right out of the water doesn't it, not to mention making you look like a little partisan worm trying to gain favor with those you admire. It goes back to my comments about anonymity doesn't it. But on the internet NO one is anonomous X. You are outted, you look like an idiot, and your reasons for coming here are obvious. Yes I will discuss this issue with ss, because they strike me as a decent person who want to talk, not a disgusting troll, using JG slogans like:

"BECAUSE OF THE HYPOCRACY!!!!"

Yeah I noticed it from the begining TROLL, and I knew who you were. You try to play coy little games, expecting the Liberal to roll over and conceed defeat to your rapier wit, when in reality, we are laughing at you. Laughing at you for being the Kool Aide drinking lap dog to the Right Wing Elite that you are.

You see, people with real courage of conviction, start their own blogs. They comment on what they believe, under THEIR name. They dont go arround posting on STAR Blogs hoping to get noticed, or an occassional pat on the head. Nor do they go trolling on behalf of others. You are utterly and completely outted. Now continue all you want, but suffice it to say, you have ZERO credibility in this debate, and even less of my attention from now on!

Oh dear. I'm sorry. I had no knowledge of your loss or any intent to draw any personal misfortune into the debate. I was only refering to the omnipotence small children attribute to their parents. As a result of this, children often feel betrayed when bad things happen beyond all human control or when their parents simply can't afford to buy them everything they want. 1) I think holding government to unreachable standards is unrealistic and counter-productive to actual disaster assistance, and 2) I wouldn't want the government to have such omnipotent parental power even if it were possible.

Thank you SS. Now to address your comments. Yes, I would tend to agree in principle with what you are saying. I dont think Government can or should be omnipotent. I think one thing that has gotten lost in the hyperbole on both sides is that my point is that the response has taken too long, and is still... Based on today's news reports, disjointed and unorganized. Do I expect a few hiccups initially, yes I do. But I dont expect five days into this dissaster, for people to still be dying or near dying.
If I am making a political point... Something I dont deny... It is that this President was elected based on his claim to LEADERSHIP, and even Republicans and Conservatives are now questioning the Leadership he has shown in the face of this dissaster. After 9/11, even I had to admit that he was clearly in charge and focussed. My perception, and I may be wrong, but it seems to be shared by many, is that this dissaster did not get the same kind of immediate focus on his part.

never give up, keep fighting the fight.

You've never called Bush a racist? Funny, I recall a time when you put a ton of racist and sexist words in Bush's mouth when you wrote a speech for him. The original was lost in your crash, but I my response to it is here: http://wizbangblog.com/archives/003207.php

And let's look back at my original screed over here, the one that set this all off. I may have generalized about liberal bloggers, but I was using YOUR SITE as exemplar. At the time I wrote it, you had SIX "it's Bush's fault" pieces up, and a SINGLE "click here to help" posting. As the lawyers say, res ipsa loquitur.

Since then, you've gone to great lengths to change that little observation, and I've appreciated seeing it. I've personally declared a moratorium on discussing the politics of Hurricane Katrina until the immediate crisis is over, and wish others would do the same.

Just for a minute, though, let's presume that you're right, and a great deal of responsibility for the deaths and destruction of Katrina can be laid at Bush's feet. In fact, let's go so far as to say that a majority of Americans were to agree with you. At that point, just what have you achieved?

Has one life been saved by your assault on Bush? Has one more bit of food, one more drop of water, one more dose of medicine been hastened to those who desperately need it by your insisting and demanding and assailing Bush? Has their lot been improved one jot by the destruction of Bush's support and credibility?

In the end, perhaps you can drive him from office, or discredit him to the point where the Democrats will take back the White House in 2008. Congratulations. But just who paid the price for that?

One final note: I'm not the only one who noticed the odd dichotomy from the blogosphere. Here's someone for whom you often declare your respect:

http://acepilots.com/mt/2005/09/01/bloggers-on-hurricane-katrina/

J.

Thank you for that very sensible response. I'd agree that things are bad. Very bad. And 99.9 percent of the reason for that is that there was a severe hurricane that flooded an entire city, leaving people stranded. Could rescue have been faster? Yes, probably if things went really really well. But we don't need perfect. We only need and can hope for "good enough." Government is made up of people and any federal employee responding to an emergency still has to find daycare for their kids and cancel the newspaper and then try to agree who to help first: Superdome? Rooftops? Convention Center? Biloxi?.

It even takes time to discern whether something is a disaster calling for state or federal leadership. When Grand Forks, ND was utterly destroyed by flood in 1997, state leaders and the city mayor took the lead role. Nobody castigated Clinton for not taking an immediate lead role in the rescuing of people on rooftops in Grand Forks. The mayor did an incredible job, like Guilliani in NYC. Bush seems to be taking on a more prominent role now, as there's been little impressive leadership coming from the state or city leaders.

I'll grant that Bush is an uninspiring leader. But my expectations of him don't include great speeches or inspirational leadership. I wish he could provide that, but that's not something he's any good at. Appearances count and some convincing lip-biting would be nice, but it's pretty small potatoes. The problem is much bigger than can be solved by lip-biting and empathy. I think he grasps that. Regardless, hopefully there's time to get everybody out alive. After that, it's going to take a lot of cohesive, nonpartisan national support (federal government, state cooperation, and private charity) to pull through.

(Another tip: try to ignore trolls who bait you with "Gotcha" evidence. Playing "gotcha" is petty, and makes that person look small, even without anybody taking the time to respond.)

Jay, that speech was satire, kind of like your buddy Paul calling blacks ignorant and asking us to pick his cotton.

And what's the point... Simple accountability. Something this administration and George Bush as a human being, have known little of.

I agree that the major concern is helping those in need. (Sadly, it seems that even today, that is still far from reality, and that many more may die as a result of miscoordination), despite the best efforts of all of us to raise money. That money may come too late for far too many people. Dehydration alone is killing many even as we speak. Nevertheless, why am I am upset, why am I calling the Administration on this, because in the end.... THIS TIME, someone needs to be held accountable, from the Mayor of New Orleans, all the way up to the White House.

Here's President Clinton on CNN agreeing with Bush 41 that the feds are doing everything they can:

CLINTON: "Yes, I think that's important to point out. Because when you say that they should have done this, that or the other thing first, you can look at that problem in isolation, and you can say that.

But look at all the other things they had to deal with. I'm telling you, nobody thought this was going to happen like this. But what happened here is they escaped -- New Orleans escaped Katrina. But it brought all the water up the Mississippi River and all in the Pontchartrain, and then when it started running and that levee broke, they had problems they never could have foreseen.

And so I just think that we need to recognize right now there's a confident effort under way. People are doing the best they can. And I just don't think it's the time to worry about that. We need to keep people alive and get them back to life -- normal life."

Those who blame the hurricane and it's aftermath on Bush then take credit for his actions are opportunistic dolts.

Okay, so let me see if I got this right. Clinton is in the White House, where he just got invited by Bush to help with the relief effort, and is sitting with Bush's father, and he is suppossed to second guess the President at that moment? Is that about Right Chimpie. That is perhaps the most doltish thing I have ever heard. And you came all the way here to make that argument. Clinton also agreed with Bush going into Iraq initially... Seen his recent comments? And the conversation you are talking about took place while the efforts on the ground were still unclear. So what exactly IS your point, eh Chimpie?

Oh and Chimpie, I would sugesst that you stay over in friendly territory at Semen Wisdom, it doesnt get much better than you being exposed as another X like Lap Dog. Welcome by the way, and the next time you talk to Jeff, thank him for the traffic.

Clinton could have graciously agreed with Bush about the relief efforts WITHOUT saying TWICE that nobody predicted this.

My point is that there are few people out there who have actually BEEN president and can make observations form a prespective that nobody else can. And, yes, he also agreed with Bush on the Iraq invasion, because Clinton himself called for regime change in 1998.

You are a fairweather pundit. It appears from your rant that you have absolutely no idea how the machinations of FEMA, first responders, local, county and state employees are to act in normal situations, let alone this catastrophy.

I don't have to be an expert on FEMA to understand that five days later people should not be dying of dehydration, starvation or untended wounds. And Only a true partisan would count how many times a POLITICIAN said something and use it to gage sincerity. Like I said, make sure to thank Jeff for the traffic. If you have nothing further to add, other than speculation about Clinton's endorsement of the handling of this disaster, I would suggest that you turn on the news, watch a few bodies float by, or another mother with a dying child in her arms, and remind yourself that this IS NOT a third world country, say it over and over, go read some more Semen Wisdom, and maybe you will be able to sleep at night without seeing those poor suffering people. Me, I am just trying to figure out how to explain to my children why fellow Americans who LOOK LIKE THEM, are starving and dying, when we come from the greatest country in the world.

Maybe you or Jeff can help me with that one?

Interesting item you brought up. How does one explain the delay in aid, and hence the suffering, to children. Here's how I explained it to my 12 year-old, when she asked me the same question YOU did:

"Sweetheart, this is a catastrophy the likes of which we have not seen in this country for a hundred years. There are many people who simply could not evacuate as they were told, primarily due to their lack of means to do so. It takes time to mount a military operation of the size needed to rescue and feed those people. In the meantime, local and state officials were doing everything they could to get the people out and to safety. Even though we are the wealthiest country on the planet, were are not immune to such catastrophies, and the relief effort simply takes time. I wish they all could have responded sooner. But we will take this as a life lesson and make sure we always have enough supplies in case of an emergency to keep us alive at least a week, since many times that's how long it takes for help to come to the rescue."

And then I told her that those who are blaming the government for the suffering are morons. Kidding...I'll wait till she's in high-school to tell her that. But by then, she will have already figured out you cannot blame everything on the government.

Oh, Chimpy, you were awfully generous to the state and local democrats.

The planning, preparation and first response is always up to local government first, then state, then the Feds.

From his "vacation," Dubya had to call the mayor of NO and twist her arm to order the evacuation the day before the storm hit. She had no plans. Some of her constituents had no transportation, but she had the city's mass transit system at her disposal--to bus them the hell out of town. She did shit. Sure, toss them in the Superdome--without food and water. Hers was the worst performance of any Mayor I've ever seen.

From his "vacation," Dubya declared LA and MS a disaster area before the storm even broke land--thus freeing up the funds and other resources. Meanwhile what in the hell did New Orleans or Louisiana do? Nothing.

The democrats responsible for planning, preparing and providing first responses didn't do a damned thing but wring their hands and wait for the Feds to take over.

And for this, the Feds somehow deserve the blame?

Well Skippy, if you want ANY credibility in the discussion, besides passing the buck, you might want to check on the sex of the Mayor, who is a Male. And since you got that one wrong, You are starting with negative credibility before the discussion even starts. But I am done with this discussion. The Commissar and I are trying to organize a bipartisan relief effort. I would suggesst everyone stop yapping and see what you can do to help.

David:

1) As I pointed out at the time, "satire" requires an element of truth to build from and lampoon. Are you saying Bush has some racist in him, or that you think that deep down he's a racist? Paul's piece had the virtue of being based on a fact -- people WERE saying that black kids needed "special" treatment, and couldn't learn the same way as other children. Paul just took that attitude and projected it to wild extremes to make his point -- and quite well, I thought.

2) While NO has a male mayor, LA has a female governor. Sounds like Skippy mixed them up -- no big deal. They're both pretty much interchangeably useless of late. But that doesn't matter -- that one misplaced pronoun lets you dismiss all the rest of Skippy's points. How convenient.

3) "Semen Wisdom?" Even from you, that's lame.

J.

First off, I have seen no reports about Bush twisting anyone's arm to order an evacuation, that is bullshit. Second, Jeff has a habit of dropping bombs on my blog and then his sniveling little anonymous bullshit bots show up to troll my blog.
Third, to answer your first question, yes, it has been demonstrated that Bush has some racist tendencies, but then who doesn't including YOU and ME. It is the nature of the society we grew up in. And as for any TRUTHS in Paul's idiotic post, I am not the only black person I know who wishes, PRAYS even for the opportunity to PICK HIS COTTON! Right out of his cajun ass, if I ever run into him. And there is NO DOUBT in my mind that HE is an unequivocal racist, I have seen enough of his post to reflect the bias. Not to mention that for some one so concerned about Black Youth, I have NEVER, ever seen a post from him expressing any concern for other issues relating to Black People in America, except to take a cheap shot as he did in that post. Oh and didn't you know, Semen is pure protein from what I have been told.

Yes, I confused the pronouns and the offices of Louisiana officials. Shoot me.

The GOVERNOR of LA stood before a news camera, along with the MAYOR. After the Mayor boasted about the unprecedented mandatory evacuation, the Governor clarified that Bush called her on Sunday and demanded a mandatory evacuation. That seems to be the only reason the order was issued. Now, where would we be if that didn't happen?

Meanwhile, lets examine why the Mayor made NO use of hundreds of busses at his disposal? Why didn't he get the poor on busses and out of town? Why?

Now everyone wants to blame Bush. It makes no sense at all.

Bataan (a helicopter carrier) and HSV (High Speed Vessel) 2 Swift, out of Naval Station Ingleside, Texas, are off the affected coastline providing support. Four MH-53s (huge helos capable of moving 40-50 troops) and two HH-60s (capable of moving about 20 troops) off the Bataan are flying medevac and search and rescue (SAR) missions in Louisiana, and supporting the Coast Guard's 8th District. Bataan's hospital and staff has been augmented by an additional contingent from the Navy's Bureau of Medicine (BUMED), consisting of 85 personnel, including 12 physicians and 4 surgeons.

The Iwo Jima (large helo carrier) Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG) is sailing from Norfolk, Va. loaded with disaster-response equipment. The USNS Arctic (T-AOE 8 - an oiler, ammunition and stores (as in refrigerated stores)) is currently off the Gulf Coast. USS Iwo Jima (LHD 7) (large helo carrier), USS Shreveport (LPD 12) (large helo capable troop transport ship), and USS Tortuga (LSD 46) (large, helo capable troop transport ship) are expected soon. A medical staff augmentation for Iwo Jima is expected to be en route tomorrow.

The hospital ship, USNS Comfort (T-AH 20), is departing Baltimore by September 3 to bring some 270 medical staff, capable of supporting 250 hospital beds, to the Gulf region. Project Hope has offered to embark additional medical personnel, and the Air Force's Surgeon General has offered to provide still further staff if needed.

USS Harry S. Truman (aircraft carrier) (CVN 75) and USS Whidbey Island (LSD 41) (same as Tortuga above) are sailing today for areas off the Gulf Coast in support to FEMA relief operations. Truman will serve as a command center and an afloat staging base, and will carry additional helicopters from Naval Air Station Jacksonville to support search and rescue efforts. Whidbey Island will bring to the region the ability to employ a movable causeway.

USS Grapple (ARS 53) (salvage ship) is currently en route in order to assist with maritime and underwater survey and salvage operations.

Military Sealift Command has transferred control of five of its ships to the Navy's Second Fleet to provide further support to relief efforts. USNS Bellatrix, Altair, Pillilau, Bob Hope, and Argol are in the Gulf of Mexico already (all capable of carrying lots of food stuffs, and supplies). USNS Arctic is also at sea in the Gulf and acting as a FEMA support ship and providing logistics services support for the other ships at sea.

Navy helicopters from Jacksonville and Mayport, Fla., are supporting relief efforts, and Navy Seabees from Port Hueneme, Jacksonville, and Norfolk are on scene or making preparations to deploy to assist in relief operations.

USNS Pollux is operating onboard dialysis equipment for the patients of a local hospital, providing diesel fuel for area hospitals' generators, and providing meals and berthing to relief workers.

It's silly to be screaming blame at Bush. For not doing more, sooner.

He prolly deserves some criticism. But he's a Rep. The press hates him and most Reps. It really looks like "the government" messed up. The UK Times gives some blame to "officials", naming Bush. No mayor, no governor.

In late 2003, the gov't messed up in Abu Ghraib; the military messed up. By January, 2004, female General Karpinski had been relieved of command, fired. Later she was demoted to Colonel.

The gov't official most to blame for New Orleans problems is ... the MAYOR of New Orleans, Democrat Ray Nagin.

And if he fails to do his job, Democrat Gov. Kathleen Blanco should be complaining, in public, about poor performance.

JunkYard Blog has fine post showing N.O. busses, sitting, stranded -- because the Dem Mayor & Dem Gov. FAILED.

since no one mobilized these buses before the storm--ahem, Mr. Ebbert--since no one mobilized them before the storm, the poor in New Orleans had no way of getting out. And now the buses are waterlogged and useless. All 205 of them.

Terry Ebbert, head of New Orleans' emergency operations, should be fired.
Dem Mayor Dugin should be fired.
Dem Gov. Blanco, prolly should be fired.

If Gen. Karpinski can be fired in a Bush admin; the voters can boot the Mayor and Gov. for their mistakes. And should. It is when bureaucrats get booted, that the reason for their dismissal becomes the incentive for OTHER 'crats to avoid that reason. The more who get booted, the more incentive to avoid that stuff.

I'm glad Bush was NOT booted, because fighting evil in Iraq is good -- even if he's not perfect.

Okay, why don't you guys just admit that while we should have been beyond prepared for such a natural disaster that we weren't ... at any level. The administration, the feds, state reps, city officials, residents, etc. NONE OF THEM. Everyone is to blame.

Now, that everyone is to blame ... maybe we can push these people to be prepared next time. That is the secondary most important thing. The most important is that people are suffering right now. They are in need, crying out for help, dying, and in pain.

Not your silly argument. Your silly argument is not important to anyone but the most egotistical buttwipes. Kind of like those idiots looting TVs and VCRs. They don't help the situation and neither do y'all.

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