David, I quoted her own words. Documented, too, each and every time. Are you calling what she's saying is "spin?" Hell, I haven't gone that far.

J.

No, not at all. I dont agree with everything Cindy has said or is alleged to have said in some cases. I am just saying as far as the big picture is concerned, Most Americans don't seem to care about her controversial comments. Making the issue Cindy is not going to change many minds, at least those who don't already have an invested interest one way or the other.

She is not a policy maker.

The questions she is asking, about the legitimacy of the war, the reasons stated for entering it, and the way it is being executed, are legitimate questions that all of us want answers to.

Demonizing her is not working, and frankly, I dont even understand why the Right continues with that. If anything, in my opinion it only serves to make her a more sympathetic charecter, and he Right Wingers beating the hell out of each other yesterday only made your side look stupid, kind of like.... Moonbats...

Funny, David, I thought you were all in favor of "making it all about the person" -- after all, that's the very essence of the chickenhawk/yellow elephant bullshit.

But I'm not making it about her. I'm simply looking at the statements she has made, on numerous occasions, that are germane to what she is asking for. Every single one I quoted was things she has said about Bush, the war, and the military. All very relevant.

You're the ones putting her up as spokeswoman, role model, figurehead. You're the ones that say that she must be heard, she must be listened to, she must be heeded. Are you now complaining that people are actually listening to her, and discussing what she is saying?

J.

(And for the record: I've never touched on anything personal about her. I was e-mailed several tips that offered information and speculation about her personal life and background, and in each case I e-mailed back declining the information, and chastised the source. I don't do that sort of thing, and have little use for those that do.)

That's all cool. And I am not saying that you shouldn't. I am just saying that it is not working, if indeed it is an effort to discredit her.

She's busy discrediting herself. I'm just stepping out of the way and letting her do all the heavy lifting. And since I'm pretty lazy, that suits me just fine.

I'll let others judge whether she's been driven nuts by her loss, or was always a nut. Regardless, the last thing she needs is to be used as a political football -- regardless of how much she seems to appreciate it. And my contempt and loathing for her handlers/enablers/users is boundless.

J.

Well I dont know how you back up the comment about her discrediting herself, since all the poll numbers would seem to indicate that it is your President who is losing ground, while her popularity appears to grow. And I do know what you mean about contempt for her handlers. I feel the same way about Bush's Handler, and how they used that poor mom the other day as a Counter-Cindy. Politics is dirty business you know. Anyway, I dont see much to argue here. You have your opinion, and I, mine. At this point your President is getting hammered over Iraq, and Sheehan, discredited in your eyes or no, seems to have a LOT to do with that. And like I said, which oddly you never responded to... The morons beating each other down yesterday in the name of Support for the war, was pretty pathetic. Any thoughts on that?

Unlike Bill Clinton (to cite the first example to come to mind), I don't use polls to shape my opinions. I use my own observations and judgments, not others'.

She is ON RECORD, ON VIDEO, describing the people who killed her son as "freedom fighters." That the United States is "not worth dying for." That her son "died for Israel." I don't need a scientific survey of a precise sampling of likely voters, properly screened on the basis of race, sex, age, income, political affiliation, and blood type to decide whether she is whacko or not.

As far as the counter-protesters? No real opinion, although I did have a brief, uncharitable giggle when I heard that a couple of Protest Warriors (who I admire immensely) were less-than-well-received by their erstwhile allies.

So, David, still interested in lionizing Mrs. Sheehan? Or should I bypass the middleman and ask your pollster?

J.

Dude, you must have me confussed with someone else. I am not lionizing anyone. And I dont think polls about what people think of Cindy's comments have much significance. It is obvious that the poll numbers indicate that Bush and his war are in trouble, and you cant spin your way out of that one. Other than that, I dont much care either way. Like I said, I think people are listening to her, and asking the same questions as she is on why we are in Iraq. And I believe the comment about Dying for Israel has been refuted already.

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