Indeed, there is something very seriously wrong with Ms. Barber. The world Ms. Barber would have us live would be quite similar to those societies Barber vents her hatred against. For her and her fellow travellers, 9/11 was the excuse she needed to voice her warped pseudo-Xtian theocratic nonsense.

Make no mistake, Barber is a racist and a bigot of the first order.

[Three of my oldest and dearest friends are Muslim.]

Unless you're Muslim my friend, don't bet on it.
The oldest jihad trick in the book is to pretend fake nice to the enemy. (just like it is also the duty of any muslim prisoner to claim abuse to create bad PR for the enemies of Islam--i.e., you can't believe anything coming out of the detainee's mouths at Guantanamo.)

All faithful muslims share one goal: Global Islam. They all just have different means of achieving it. And those doing it peacefully, i.e., CAIR, are the most dangerous, hiding their ties to terrorism and their goal of an Islamic America. They have no intent on improving "American-Islamic" relations - their goal is to take advantage of our political correctness and tolerance so we will eventually assimilate into Islam without putting up a fight. They are playing us masterfully!

You still think it's an hysterical exaggeration by the "conservatives?" Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

I would suggest picking up a copy of the Qu'ran to find out the extent to which you are being fooled. If your friends are in the dark too, it's because they haven't reached a high enough "power" status in Islam to be taught the finer details of Jihad by a real sheikh.

Haven't all of you preaching blind tolerance of Islam been wondering why American Muslims are mostly silent about the radical members of their religion in the middle east? If not, get your heads out of the desert sand!

Well, that settles it. Tallglassofmilk has Muslim friends and he confirms our worst fears.

The odd thing, of course, is one can find equally dire predictions in the Bible for global domination. Certainly, we can find Xtian leaders who foretell of very bad things in store for those who don't toe the Xtian line.

In fact, fundamentalist Xtians believe in a very bad fate for those in Israel.

[The odd thing, of course, is one can find equally dire predictions in the Bible for global domination. Certainly, we can find Xtian leaders who foretell of very bad things in store for those who don't toe the Xtian line.]

The odd thing, actually, is everyone's willingness to ignore muslim's bad behavior by attempting to divert attention to others' bad behavior.

Surely you're not so consumed by your own ignorance that you don't see the difference between predicting a future outcome and active pursuit of a goal.

[I will remind you that it was your President, who apparently decided to pursue a vendetta in Iraq, instead of concentrating resources on killing or capturing the TRUE Islamafacist, Ossama Bin Laden.]

I can see by your choice of words exactly how you feel.

Why don't you condemn the of the kind of Muslim religion installed by the Taliban theocracy in pre-war Afghanistan?

Do you actually think that were we to capture OBL, the larger problem of Islam-based terrorism would go away?

[The odd thing, of course, is one can find equally dire predictions in the Bible for global domination. Certainly, we can find Xtian leaders who foretell of very bad things in store for those who don't toe the Xtian line.]

I find it ironic that you're willing to throw "Xtianity" under the bus and generally embrace Islam as a preferrable religion.

Cheers

"I find it ironic that you're willing to throw "Xtianity" under the bus and generally embrace Islam as a preferrable religion."

I find it ironic that Right Wingers are always trying to put words in people's mouth.

I dont speak for JG, but I was born and raised a Southern Baptist. The same Southern Baptist Religion that White Sheeted bigots who tortured, maimed and lynched my people claimed. Yet I am developed enough to know that that is not what Christ taught.

I also find it ironic that Right Wingers are always shouting for every Muslim to condemn the idiocy and evil of Terrorist, when those same Right Wingers are quick to dissassociate themselves from Right Wing Terrorist who blow up Federal Buildings and burn crosses on people's lawns, saying hypocritically that they dont need to condemn such behavior becuase it has nothing to do with them. PLEASE!

As for the Koran, I have read it, albiet in English, and I have also read the Old Testament, and the Book of Mormon. All of which speak of things we would find repulsive in our society, what is your point?

On the friendship thing, you have no freaking clue as to who my friends are, or their motives.

"Do you actually think that were we to capture OBL, the larger problem of Islam-based terrorism would go away?"

And on Ossama, keep making excuses if it makes you sleep better at night. But I got a question for you:

Do you actually think that invading Iraq with a Keystone Cops plan and massive firepower, putting Saddam in jail, driving the country to a chaotic fuedal state of constant guerilla warfare, and allowing thousands of weapons and components for WMD technology to be captured by insurgents and terrorist.... Will make the larger problem of Islam-based terrorism would go away???

Why don't you condemn the of the kind of Muslim religion installed by the Taliban theocracy in pre-war Afghanistan?

Apparently, you had no problem when Ronnie Reagan hailed the Taliban as the "moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers."

You likely didn't mind when we fomented religious fervor in the mujahadeen to fight a proxy war against the Soviets, giving them arms and training.

And you should read about how the Taliban came to power in Afghanistan; the Cliff's Notes version is the Afghans were tired of warlords looting their country and looked to the Taliban extremists to clean it up. Well, now we've given the country back to the warlords. Nothing like repeating history.

I find it ironic that you're willing to throw "Xtianity" under the bus and generally embrace Islam as a preferrable religion.

Do try and not be obtuse. Nowhere have I claimed a preference for any religion. But I do understand all religions--Xtian, Muslim, Judaism, Catholicism, whatever--have fringes which will use twisted versions of their faith to advance their own selfish self-interests. And quite often it is these same fringes which encourage hatred and bigotry against other faiths to further their agendas.

Oh, and by the way....

"Why don't you condemn the of the kind of Muslim religion installed by the Taliban theocracy in pre-war Afghanistan?"

You mean the same kind of Islam financed by Bush family friends the Saudis... The kind practiced in Saudi Arabia, where even female U.S. Military personnel are not allowed to drived... The kind still practiced in the tribal areas of U.S. Ally, Pakistan? Is that the kind of Islam you are talking about? Cant be, can it? That would be... Hypocritical???

[when those same Right Wingers are quick to dissassociate themselves from Right Wing Terrorist who blow up Federal Buildings and burn crosses on people's lawns, saying hypocritically that they dont need to condemn such behavior becuase it has nothing to do with them.]

Not this "right-winger." Who's putting words in who's mouth? And who's still ignoring domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh's ties to mid-east terrorists? Only those ignorant of the documented, but little publicized revelations.

[As for the Koran, I have read it, albiet in English, and I have also read the Old Testament, and the Book of Mormon. All of which speak of things we would find repulsive in our society, what is your point?]

The point is that modern Christianty seems to have been able to evolve beyond the "repulsiveness" you speak of but the backward muslims have not. They are still stoning people to death and sawing off heads at the instruction of Allah and their beloved Qu'ran--and being praised and revered for it. Surely the point is not that hard to miss, even for a progressive liberal with your head in the sand.

[On the friendship thing, you have no freaking clue as to who my friends are, or their motives.]

But you just told me: "Three of my oldest and dearest friends are Muslim. They are good, hardworking Americans..."

For being so well-versed in religious studies, you should realize that your so-called muslim friends are either not muslim or they are not your friends, unless you've already converted, which it seems you haven't, but I see your friends are making headway on this...

[I have spent years learning about their religion and even participating in some of their traditions, like breaking fast with them during Ramadan. They have supported me, been brothers to me, and treated my religion with the utmost respect. In many ways I see in them a discipline that is lacking in many so called Christians.]

Then you clearly understand the difference between modern Christianity and today's global Islamic agenda and yet the only defense when your precious Islamofascists are attacked by "right-wingers" is look - "they did it too--once upon a time" so it must be justified and defensible.

Just once I'd like to see a real defense of Islamofascism that didn't explain away the behavior by putting the blame on someone else or by ignoring the behavior altogether by pointing to others' bad behavior. Although, I won't hold my breathe and expect that here or from any other progressive liberal in search of utopia.

Not this "right-winger." Who's putting words in who's mouth? And who's still ignoring domestic terrorist Timothy McVeigh's ties to mid-east terrorists? Only those ignorant of the documented, but little publicized revelations.

Timothy McVeigh had no ties to Middle East terrorism. I wrote about how McVeigh's attorney was pushing the Middle East connection to sell books. The FEDs never presented any evidence on McVeigh's Middle East connections because they don't exist. Conservatives have been mouthing off Laurie Mylroie's discredited book stating that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the first WTC bombing. She pushed McVeigh being an agent of Hussein. No rationale person takes her book seriously.

Then you clearly understand the difference between modern Christianity and today's global Islamic agenda and yet the only defense when your precious Islamofascists are attacked by "right-wingers" is look - "they did it too--once upon a time" so it must be justified and defensible.

Just once I'd like to see a real defense of Islamofascism that didn't explain away the behavior by putting the blame on someone else or by ignoring the behavior altogether by pointing to others' bad behavior. Although, I won't hold my breathe and expect that here or from any other progressive liberal in search of utopia.

Who is defending Islamofacism?
Thanks for making my points so well about narrow minded racism. You did it much better than I could have hoped to. My point has been all along that ALL muslims are not terrorist, just like all Christians dont blow up abortion clinics, or burn crosses on people's yards, something that is not so much "once upon a time," but I guess you dont get that.

I for one am glad that the vast majority of the 1.3 Billion Muslims dont want to saw off my head. And if all of them are so bad, why does your president have so many muslim friends... You know, the ones with the oil fields?

[Apparently, you had no problem when Ronnie Reagan hailed the Taliban as the "moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers."]

No, I don't, because Reagan actually said:

"The Mujahideen are the moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers."

Apparently, you make no distinction between the Mujahideen and the Taliban. I do.

The Mujahideen were Afghan Nationals.

The Taliban were orphans raised Northern Pakistan. Educated in madrassahs, they were not taught about their ancestry and tribal customs, but about the religious ideas of mullahs, many of whom were unqualified as Islamic scholars.

The Mujahideen defeated the Soviet Union when the Soviets pulled troops out of Afghanistan in 1989. The Mohammad Najibullah regime fell in 1992. Unfortunately, the Mujahideen failed to establish a united government, and with considerable influence by Pakistan, the Taliban were installed in 1996. The Mujahideen regrouped as the Northern Alliance and in 2001 with U.S. and International military aid, they ousted the Taliban from power and formed a new government.

Cheers,

[No rationale [sic] person takes her [Laurie Mylroie] book seriously.]

And Jayna Davis' book? Paul Wolfowitz? the surpressed FBI evidence? the 9/11 Commission?

You discrediting all of that, too?

And the links between McVeigh, Jose Padilla, John Doe #2, Ramzi Youssef, the Philippines, Saddam and Iraq? They're all coincidental, right?

[My point has been all along that ALL muslims are not terrorist,]

Well, duh. Why do you think we use the term "Islamofascist." Maybe to make a distinction. I guess you don't get that.

Of course, even though all muslims are not terrorists, one should not falsely deduce that a muslim can still not be our friend. It simply isn't possible, per their relgion, not per our choice.

[I for one am glad that the vast majority of the 1.3 Billion Muslims dont want to saw off my head. And if all of them are so bad, why does your president have so many muslim friends... You know, the ones with the oil fields?]

And you actually take our president at his word on the fact that he and the "ones with the oil" are friends? That's something for a "progressive liberal." I think there's a few more things G Dubya would like to convince you of since you're feeling so gullible.

Huh? Are you actually admiting that G-Dub is a liar Milk? "That's something for a Conservative." As for the other guys comments about the Mujahideen, LMAO. It is good to see how good you are at revisionist history.

The most well-known, and feared, mujahideen were the various loosely-aligned opposition groups that fought against the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan between 1979 and 1989, and then fought against each other in the following civil war. These mujahideen were significantly financed, armed, and trained by the United States (under the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan), Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and China.[1] (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/10/1425222) Reagan referred to these mujahideen as "freedom fighters ... defending principles of independence and freedom that form the basis of global security and stability." [2] (http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/resource/speeches/1982/31082c.htm) In Western popular culture, the mujahideen were portrayed favourably in the popular actions films The Living Daylights and Rambo III. After the Soviets withdrew, the mujahideen broke into two loosely-aligned opposing factions, the Northern Alliance and the Taleban, which then engaged in civil war for control of Afghanistan.

A wealthy Saudi named Osama bin Laden was a prominent mujahideen organizer and financier; his Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) (Office of Services) funnelled money, arms, and Muslim fighters from around the world into Afghanistan, with the assistance and support of the American, Pakistani, and Saudi governments. In 1988, bin Laden broke away from the MAK.

Afghanistan's resistance movement was born in chaos, spread and triumphed chaotically, and did not find a way to govern differently. Virtually all of its war was waged locally by regional warlords. As warfare became more sophisticated, outside support and regional coordination grew. Even so, the basic units of mujahideen organization and action continued to reflect the highly segmented nature of Afghan society.
Source - Wikipedia

But hey, let me add, you guys are pretty funny, thanks for making this thread so humorous. And here I was under the impression that the uncles to my children, and guys who I had all thos bar-b-ques with, were actually my buddies, man have I been living a lie. LMAO!

[Huh? Are you actually admiting that G-Dub is a liar Milk? "That's something for a Conservative."]

Actually, I am admitting that all politicians are liars or it would not be possible for them to become and continue to be politicians. And that's nothing for someone who follows politics.

And clearly you didn't familiarize yourself with my "conservative" habits before linking to me if you think my calling of my president out on anything is something (see also: immifuckingration).

Apparently, you make no distinction between the Mujahideen and the Taliban. I do

You're free to make whatever distinctions you please. You're also free to be wrong.

BBC Analysis: Who Are the Taleban?

Excerpt:

The world first became aware of the Taleban in 1994 when they were appointed by Islamabad to protect a convoy trying to open up a trade route between Pakistan and Central Asia.

The group - comprised of Afghans trained in religious schools in Pakistan along with former Islamic fighters or mujahedin - proved effective bodyguards, driving off other mujahedin groups who attacked and looted the convoy.

You discrediting all of that, too?

Yup.

The best takedown of Mylroie was done by Peter Bergen:

Armchair">http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0312.bergen.html">Armchair Provocateur

Even the FBI has discredited Mylroie (and Wolfowitz):

Newsweek:

At the heart of Mylroie’s theory is her contention that, after the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, Iraqi intelligence agents arranged for Yousef to assume the identity of Abdul Basit, a Pakistani man who was then living in Kuwait, and dispatched him to the United States to commit acts of terrorism.

Wolfowitz’s interest in proving Mylroie’s "switched identity" theory got him to persuade the Justice Department shortly after September 11 to provide a government jet and FBI staff support for a secret mission to England by former CIA director James Woolsey. The idea behind the mission was to check fingerprints on file in Swansea, England, where Basit had once gone to school, and compare them to the fingerprints of the Ramzi Yousef in prison.

Mylroie had postulated that Basit and Yousef were actually two different people and the fingerprints therefore wouldn’t match. The FBI instead has long contended that Basit and Yousef are one and the same; that Yousef is a Pakistani (and the nephew of the September 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed) and not Iraqi.

Justice Department officials tell NEWSWEEK that the results of the Woolsey mission were exactly what the FBI had predicted: that the fingerprints were in fact identical. After the match was made, FBI officials assumed at the time that it had put the Mylroie theory to rest.

Hey David- you may want to go back and check out Captain Ed's Update IV on the post you referenced. Then go back and read exactly what he wrote in the original post and you'll realize that he's not condemning all Muslims- just the same ones who you complain about- the ones trying to hijack a religion.

What? No vetting of Jayna Davis' book?

And the Terry Nichols and Youssef's bombmaking meetings in the Philippines? That amounts to nothing, too?

There's nothing to vet in Davis' book. She's a local 'newsgirl' who did next to no real research or investigative reporting.

I'd point out Davis' book came out at time when the GOP presided over the WH and Congress; if Davis had all these wonderful 'facts' linking OKCity with Saddam and/or Al Qaeda--don't you think AWOL George and company would love to have that connection made?

Of course, the entire Nichols-Yousef meeting has been soundly debunked. The entire Nichols-Yousef story is based on a single informant (of highly dubious credibility) who claimed a "farmer" (supposedly Nichols but not identified by the informant) met with Yousef in 1992 or 1993 in the Phillipines.

The problem with this scenario is Nichols wasn'tin the Phillipines in 1992 at all. He was there in early 1993. Unfortunately for tinfoil hat-types, Yousef wasn't in the Phillipines in early 1993; he was in New York City.

Marty, I just read Ed's post, and I dissagree, all he did in update IV was link to Bill's post, where Bill made the good points. My contention is that his excusing disrespect for the Koran as a "book," and nothing more, is in and of itself offensive.

I'm with Bill and David.

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